Author Topic: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans  (Read 1996 times)

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 14 December 19 12:24 GMT (UK) »
The Highland trade in black cattle was run entirely on trust for centuries, most drovers were not at all well-heeled but obtained credit with a good name as security & dealt mostly in bills of exchange. It was a risky but lucrative business & bankruptcy not unknown. Prominent drovers could raise huge sums of money on their name alone, the greatest of them Cameron of Corriechoillie, a barefooted crofters son, started by trading a few goats & at one time apparently owned 60,000 sheep.

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Online Forfarian

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 14 December 19 12:44 GMT (UK) »
Certainly. But the only actual occupation Fraser178 has mentioned is labourer. Lending to a plain landless labourer with no other assets would be a different matter from lending to a drover who would use the money to buy stock and recoup it quickly by selling the stock. So if he got a loan of three times a labourer's income, it does suggest that he was not a plain labourer, but an entrepreneur of some sort.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Fraser178

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 14 December 19 13:05 GMT (UK) »
It is rather extraordinary I mean if you didn't know Alexander was one years old you'd probably believe he was an adult with that reference.

yeah that is true the parish marriages give us no real information sadly.

I do agree with your assessment that he was no normal labourer, I mean if he was cattle driver surely that would of been the occupation given?
So it looks like he either managed to sell them on some idea or he had family/friends who could act as insurance?

I have attached an image from the back of the dative, is a Cautioner the surety for loan?

Research Intrests.
Manchester:Fraser, Jennings, Reid, Worsley
Wolverhampton:Hill, Griffiths, Harper, Whitehouse, Tarbuck, Asprey
Willenhall:Aston
Wales:Griffiths,Jennings
Warwickshire: Harper
Ireland County Dublin: Reid

Online Forfarian

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 14 December 19 13:11 GMT (UK) »
I have attached an image from the back of the dative, is a Cautioner the surety for loan?
In the context of a testament dative I think it's more that he was a person who would ensure that the executry was properly carried out, which would include seeing that the loan was repaid but not being personally liable to pay it. But I may be wrong.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 December 19 13:35 GMT (UK) »
A Cautioner in the strict sense of its meaning was a person who took responsibility for the debts/obligations of another
Quote
CAUTIONER, CAITIONER, Caishoner, n. Sc. law: one who becomes security for another

Offline Fraser178

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 14 December 19 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Interesting, so it appears that this Thomas Littlejohn was responsible for ensuring the debt was repaid.

As for the lack of burials, do you think its a case of incomplete burial records online?
Research Intrests.
Manchester:Fraser, Jennings, Reid, Worsley
Wolverhampton:Hill, Griffiths, Harper, Whitehouse, Tarbuck, Asprey
Willenhall:Aston
Wales:Griffiths,Jennings
Warwickshire: Harper
Ireland County Dublin: Reid

Online Forfarian

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 14 December 19 15:14 GMT (UK) »
As for the lack of burials, do you think its a case of incomplete burial records online?
No. It's probably a complete lack of burial records offline.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 14 December 19 15:39 GMT (UK) »
Drovers generally had no assets, the whole trade was carried on by unsecured loans & the occupation only took up half the year at most, some also dealt in cattle themselves or traded in small goods. Many with no ties at home stayed on in the low country helping with the harvest or other labouring work so a gentleman described as a labourer may also have been involved in the cattle trade. A business which supported cottars, shoemaker, tinkers & the odd duke or two! Some even apparently knitted stockings as they went, to sell at the fair at Falkirk etc!  ;D

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Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 14 December 19 16:44 GMT (UK) »
As for the lack of burials, do you think its a case of incomplete burial records online?
No. It's probably a complete lack of burial records offline.

I would agree with Forfarian - Scottish burial records are possibly amongst the worst record set anywhere. Pre Civil registration in some areas the only records you may find are where the church has rented out a mortcloth (coffin covering) and they record the fee raised for this.